Legislature(1993 - 1994)

01/28/1993 10:00 AM House O&G

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
                                                                               
                     JOINT HOUSE AND SENATE                                    
                 SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON OIL & GAS                                
                        January 28, 1993                                       
                           10:10 a.m.                                          
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MEMBERS PRESENT                                                              
                                                                               
  Representative Joe Green, Chairman                                           
  Representative Harley Olberg                                                 
  Representative Gary Davis                                                    
  Representative Jerry Sanders                                                 
  Representative Joe Sitton                                                    
                                                                               
  MEMBERS ABSENT                                                               
                                                                               
  Representative Pete Kott, Vice-Chairman                                      
  Representative Jerry Mackie                                                  
                                                                               
  OTHER HOUSE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                  
                                                                               
  Representative Kay Brown                                                     
  Representative Cynthia Toohey                                                
                                                                               
  SENATE MEMBERS PRESENT                                                       
                                                                               
  Senator Loren Leman                                                          
  Senator Bert Sharp                                                           
                                                                               
  COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                           
                                                                               
  Overview of Division of Oil & Gas Department of Natural                      
  Resources                                                                    
                                                                               
  WITNESS REGISTER                                                             
                                                                               
  David Johnston, Chairman/Commissioner                                        
  Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission                                   
  Department of Natural Resources                                              
  3001 Porcupine Drive                                                         
  Anchorage, Alaska  99501-3120                                                
  279-1433                                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of the Commission                       
                                                                               
  Jim Eason, Director                                                          
  Division of Oil and Gas                                                      
  P.O. Box 107034                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska  99510-0734                                                
  762-2547                                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT: Gave an overview of the Division                         
                                                                               
  Ken Boyd, Deputy Director                                                    
  Division of Oil and Gas                                                      
  P.O. Box 107034                                                              
  Anchorage, Alaska  99510-0734                                                
  762-2547                                                                     
  POSITION STATEMENT: Provided information about the Division                  
                                                                               
                                                                               
  ACTION NARRATIVE                                                             
                                                                               
  Tape 93-2, Side A                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  The House Special Committee on Oil & Gas was called to order                 
  by Chairman Joe Green at 10:10 a.m.  Members present were                    
  Representatives Green, Olberg, Davis, Sanders and Sitton.                    
                                                                               
  CHAIRMAN GREEN announced the meeting was being held jointly                  
  with the Senate and turned the gavel over to Senator Leman.                  
                                                                               
  Number 016                                                                   
                                                                               
  SENATOR LOREN LEMAN, CO-CHAIR, announced that because of                     
  other conflicts, other Senators were unable to attend, but                   
  he expected to be joined by at least one of his colleagues,                  
  and that the meeting would be considered a work session.  He                 
  then returned the gavel to Co-Chair Green.                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN acknowledged the presence of Representative                   
  Cynthia Toohey.  He then called on the Chairman of the Oil                   
  and Gas Conservation Commission, Mr. Dave Johnston to give                   
  the first overview.                                                          
                                                                               
  Number 028                                                                   
                                                                               
  DAVID JOHNSTON, CHAIRMAN/COMMISSIONER, ALASKA OIL AND GAS                    
  CONSERVATION COMMISSION (the Commission), DEPARTMENT OF                      
  NATURAL RESOURCES (DNR), stated the Commission had a very                    
  powerful statutory mandate and believed there was inadequate                 
  understanding of the role of the Commission in terms of oil                  
  and gas development in the state.  He encouraged questions                   
  and answers because he believed questions and answers were                   
  probably a little bit more productive than a song and dance.                 
                                                                               
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON stated the Commission was an independent quasi-                 
  judicial agency of the state of Alaska that had been given a                 
  broad statutory mandate to prevent waste, protect the                        
  correlative rights of the business owner, and insure the                     
  ultimate recovery feasibly possible was obtained.  The                       
  Commission also implicated a program for the federal                         
  government, called "The Underground Injection Control                        
  Program" for class two oil and gas wells, in the state,                      
  which was partially funded with federal government funds, he                 
  advised.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON added the Commission basically served as a                      
  forum to adjudicate disputes between industry and state                      
  government.  He believed there was a lot of confusion about                  
  waste, though the average citizen recognized waste on the                    
  surface.  The catastrophic release of oil and gas would                      
  constitute waste, he said, and hoped the Commission's                        
  actions would, in fact, prevent such an occurrence by, among                 
  other ways, ensuring that drill rigs were properly equipped                  
  with prevention equipment, and proper mud consistency to                     
  control actual drilling operations.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 057                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON believed a more important aspect of the                         
  Commission was the protection of reservoir energy itself.                    
  The Commission was looking for development plans from                        
  industry that intelligently developed reservoirs in a manner                 
  that preserved the energy in order to recover as much of the                 
  resource as possible, he said.  This argued for an                           
  understanding of the reservoir, the geology, geophysics and                  
  strategy, elements which dictated aspects of development,                    
  drilling, completion, and maintenance of pressure through                    
  enhanced recovery operations.  These are the things the                      
  Commission basically focused on, he stressed.                                
  MR. JOHNSTON stated the Commission kept an eye on the                        
  activities of industry to ensure their plans for enhanced                    
  recovery, water-plug operations, and gas flood operations                    
  were done in a manner that made sense, and enhanced the                      
  overall recovery of the resource.  He added the Commission's                 
  work, if done well, benefitted all Alaskans, by ensuring                     
  worker safety, and the protection of the environment.                        
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON did not believe the state had adequately funded                 
  the Commission.  He pointed out funding for the Commission                   
  in the early 1980s was about $2.5 million dollars with a                     
  staff of 27 employees.  Since about 1983, funding for the                    
  Commission had steadily dropped, which compromised the                       
  Commission's ability to carry out its functions.  He                         
  disclosed the Commission's budget was currently $1.8 million                 
  dollars with a staff of 22.  He pointed out the state, in                    
  establishing the Commission, had established the oil and gas                 
  conservation tax to provide a source of revenue for the                      
  Commission, but that tax had been going into the general                     
  fund.                                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 123                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON stated currently the tax brought in $2.3                        
  million dollars, and the Commission's budget was $1.8                        
  million dollars, a gap of $500,000 with which the Commission                 
  could expand its capability and oversight.  He disclosed the                 
  Commission had the power to subpoena witnesses, level                        
  penalties of up to $5,000 per day for the violation of the                   
  order and regulation of statutes of the Commission, but did                  
  not have the staff to do those things.                                       
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON hoped to heighten the legislature's awareness                   
  of the underfunding of the Commission and requested support                  
  relative to utilizing the conservation tax for what it was                   
  originally intended, that being funding the Commission, and                  
  submitted that if the legislature was not prepared to do                     
  that then the conservation tax should be reexamined and the                  
  mill rate possibly lowered.  He concluded by noting his                      
  frustration about the lack of support given the Commission.                  
                                                                               
  Number 158                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN requested confirmation that the Commission                    
  was empowered with the responsibilities as well as the power                 
  to actually go on board every time a well was drilled and                    
  look at various phases of the drilling.                                      
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON clarified the Commission had the power, but not                 
  the capability to visit every well.  However, the Commission                 
  did attempt to visit every exploratory well.  He disclosed                   
  the Commission had five inspectors, an increase by two from                  
  the previous year.  The Commission also tried to get a                       
  reasonable sampling of other development wells being                         
  drilled, he added.                                                           
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON pointed out the Commission had a lot more                       
  responsibilities than just looking at drill rigs, such as                    
  ensuring that waste did not occur by, among other things,                    
  the inspection of safety valves.  Additionally, the                          
  Commission was responsible for the measurement of oil and                    
  gas to determine quality and quantity.  Lately, the                          
  Commission have been definitely focused on that particular                   
  aspect, which was one of the highest priorities at this                      
  point, he added.                                                             
  MR. JOHNSTON noted one of the Commission's inspectors had a                  
  mechanical engineering degree, and this inspector would be                   
  the key person on metering.  Currently, steps were being                     
  taken to ensure he was properly trained, he advised.                         
                                                                               
  Number 193                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JOE SITTON inquired about the qualifications                  
  of inspectors, their pay levels, and whether or not they had                 
  industry ties or backgrounds.                                                
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON disclosed the Commission looked for people that                 
  had been in the field, knew the rigs, knew the operations,                   
  had actually worked hands on, gotten their hands dirty and                   
  understood what it was to drill an oil and gas well in the                   
  state of Alaska.  Taken together the Commission's five                       
  inspectors had over 95 years combined experience in the oil                  
  patch, he said.  That level of experience was something he                   
  felt very comfortable about building an inspection program                   
  around.                                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON advised inspectors were paid at a range 21 and                  
  were allowed to float upward as they gained experience.                      
  Currently the Commission had inspectors that ranged from 21A                 
  to 21J, he added.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 232                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN acknowledged the presence of Representatives                  
  Brown and Mackie.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 237                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE JERRY SANDERS inquired into the number of                     
  Commission staff at its inception.                                           
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON disclosed in 1983, its peak year, the                           
  Commission had a budget of $2.7 million dollars and a staff                  
  of 27, which included five inspectors, a cadre of petroleum                  
  engineers, petroleum geologists, and support staff.                          
  Currently, the Commission's professional staff consisted of                  
  three engineers and one geologist, he concluded.                             
                                                                               
  Number 245                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS requested clarification on whether                    
  1983 was the peak year or the year of the Commission's                       
  inception.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON clarified 1983 was the peak year, and that a                    
  gradual reduction began in 1984 or 1985.  He said it was                     
  clear that the Commission was not spending the entire amount                 
  of money that had been earmarked for it.                                     
                                                                               
  Number 250                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS had always been under the impression                  
  that things like that did not happen in government, and                      
  wondered how that happened.                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON noted the early 1980s was a period of time when                 
  the state was flushed with a lot of money and, therefore, a                  
  lot of money was being directed at a lot of different                        
  agencies, one of which was the Commission.  He said there                    
  was a lot of money left on the table in terms of contractual                 
  work, and the Commission had hundreds of thousands of                        
  dollars turned back because there was no need or reason to                   
  spend at that level.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON was amazed that the Commission was funded at                    
  what he deemed to be an inadequate level given its mandate.                  
                                                                               
  Number 274                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS wondered whether this represented a                   
  learning curve.                                                              
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON felt there was probably some truth to that.  He                 
  stated it was necessary to have some money devoted to                        
  understanding the development of a huge reservoir like                       
  Prudhoe Bay, in late 1970s or early 1980s.  From his                         
  perspective, the downsizing of industry provided some                        
  incentive for ways to cut corners.  He submitted the role of                 
  the Commission in assuring development occurred in a manner                  
  that did not jeopardize the resource and was every bit as                    
  compelling today from the standpoint of ensuring things were                 
  being done properly.                                                         
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON did not want to see industry cutting back to                    
  the point where they compromised their ability to develop                    
  reservoirs properly.  He felt he should be doing more to                     
  ensure inspectors were working as hard as possible to see                    
  things were being done properly.  He should be doing things                  
  in the office, in terms of looking at the management and                     
  surveyance aspects of reservoir development, to ensure                       
  things were not being done that only benefitted industry,                    
  but benefitted the state of Alaska as well, he said.                         
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON wanted to build a decent program for the state                  
  and show that the Commission was strong, committed to                        
  resource development, and was doing those things that it was                 
  originally intended to do.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 314                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN interjected that this was not a budget                        
  hearing, but an overview of the Commission.  For the benefit                 
  of the members, he added a little insight to the history of                  
  the Commission that went back before 1983.  He alleged the                   
  Commission, in the 1970s, was called the Division of Oil and                 
  Gas, and it was a division under the DNR.  In about 1978 or                  
  so there was legislation passed that created the                             
  Conservation Commission much like the Texas Railroad                         
  Commission.  Soon thereafter what is now the Division of Oil                 
  and Gas and at the same time the Division of Mines, under                    
  DNR, were under one Division called the Division of Minerals                 
  and Energy Management.  That became such a large cumbersome                  
  thing through various reasons it was split and those two                     
  divisions became the landowner, he advised.                                  
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN advised further that in 1983 the Commission                   
  was established and given police power.  He thought this was                 
  a very good sign.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 353                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON emphasized the statutory authorities, and was                   
  amazed at the Commission's potential, given the ability to                   
  subpoena witnesses and records.  He felt that was a powerful                 
  tool that ought to be utilized when and where appropriate.                   
  Again, he argued for a certain capability to do that.                        
  CO-CHAIR GREEN was sympathetic to the Commission's problems,                 
  and was certain that when there was separate funding for                     
  this specific project it should be addressed very definitely                 
  in the budget review.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON apologized for his frustrations.                                
                                                                               
  Number 365                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE KAY BROWN concurred generally with Mr.                        
  Johnston about the need for more resources for the                           
  Commission.  She requested a brief discussion of Mr.                         
  Johnston's estimation of the state's knowledge of what                       
  effect gas sales would have.  She noted the Commission's                     
  most pressing issues for the coming year were to investigate                 
  the effects of gas sales in Prudhoe Bay, and advised of her                  
  knowledge gained during the 17th Legislative Session on the                  
  effect of premature gas sales.                                               
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON surmised the development of gas sales was a                     
  priority of the governor.  He advised that in November, 1990                 
  or 1991, the Commission held hearings under the expansion of                 
  the Prudhoe Bay Municipal Gas Project.  Part of that                         
  testimony was to bring the state up to date on what had gone                 
  on in the development of Prudhoe Bay, which disclosed in                     
  part, that  premature gas sales created the potential of                     
  losing oil recovery.  Depending on the dates, offtake rates,                 
  and a lot of different factors, estimates of plus or minus                   
  400 million to one billion barrels of oil were potentially                   
  at risk, he concluded.                                                       
                                                                               
  Number 403                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN clarified Mr. Johnston was talking about                      
  Prudhoe Bay.                                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON concurred.  He commented on the size of Prudhoe                 
  Bay, and declared the Commission would like to understand                    
  that effect a lot better.  Currently, the Commission had no                  
  way to independently verify the information it received from                 
  industry, but simply looked at it from an engineering                        
  perspective, he said, and wondered whether that was proper                   
  state oversight.  He said further that when you had 400                      
  million to one billion barrels of oil at risk that meant                     
   some serious dollars, and that was something that ought to                  
  be looked at very seriously.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON spoke of the Commission's request earlier this                  
  year for $500,000 to audit the production models of the                      
  Prudhoe Bay owners:  Exxon, BP and Arco.  An independent                     
  model by the Commission would cost 10 times that, he                         
  declared.  The Commission wanted to audit the models to see                  
  what they were saying and whether they were done properly.                   
  Unfortunately, that request was not forthcoming and, the                     
  Commission had to establish a gas octane rate, he added.                     
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON iterated that with 400 million to one billion                   
  barrels of oil possibly at risk, it made sense to "throw a                   
  little money at this thing to make sure you got the right                    
  answer."                                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 444                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if the prevention of waste was also one                 
  of the Commission's mandates.                                                
  MR. JOHNSTON declared once the proposal got serious and an                   
  actual proposition was put forth, the next thing the                         
  Commission had to do was establish the gas offtake.  He                      
  noted a gas offtake rate had been established back when                      
  Prudhoe Bay came on, in Conservation Order 145, which he                     
  believed was in 1979.  He wanted to ensure the offtake rate                  
  was proper and if not, it should be changed.                                 
                                                                               
  Number 459                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE HARLEY OLBERG clarified 400 million to one                    
  billion barrels of oil would be at risk if natural gas was                   
  withdrawn.                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON replied in the affirmative, but added the key                   
  question was to assume.  He noted currently gas was being                    
  used to maintain pressure at the reservoir, and gas sales                    
  would deplete that pressure at a greater rate than if there                  
  were no gas sales.  This could be mitigated by expanded                      
  water floods, he believed, and mentioned the Commission's                    
  interest in a plan of attack that would optimize recovery of                 
  both resources; not benefit the recovery of just gas or just                 
  oil, but look at it as hydrocarbon.                                          
                                                                               
  Number 480                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON stated in that equation the Commission wanted                   
  to understand the mechanisms, alternatives, and mitigation                   
  techniques on proposed gas sales, and how they would be                      
  offset.  He cautioned the need for at least an understanding                 
  of what was occurring and thought there might be some other                  
  ways to go about that with some sophisticated water flooding                 
  techniques, flooding behind the gas cap, or other techniques                 
  that were not yet understood.  He believed gas sales were                    
  greater, but should be done in an intelligent manner.                        
                                                                               
  Number 497                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN wondered if it was fair to assume that what                   
  would be good from the Commission's standpoint would also be                 
  primarily parallel with what the operators would think.  He                  
  also wondered if the operators would not be concerned about                  
  giving up 1.4 million to a billion barrels of oil toward gas                 
  sales, given the tremendous difference in value.                             
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN noted the operators had recently spent about                  
  one million dollars for a GHX2 project that recycled gas.                    
  He asked if that fell within the Commission's purview.                       
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON acknowledged the Commission played a role in                    
  the GHX2 project.  He was convinced that industry was doing                  
  everything possible to properly manage the reservoir.                        
                                                                               
  Number 508                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR LEMAN acknowledged the presence of Senator Sharp, a                 
  member of the Senate Special Committee on Oil and Gas, and                   
  noted they were still in a work session.                                     
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE BROWN concurred with the observation that the                 
  state's interest ran parallel to that of the producers.  She                 
  understood dozens or hundreds of different scenarios for                     
  reservoir development were looked at, of which the                           
  Commission might end up seeing maybe one or two.  She                        
  believed there was real value in having a thorough                           
  understanding of all options, and hoped the committee could                  
  spend a little more time on this in the future.  She felt                    
  there were a lot of things to contemplate here in respect to                 
  current policies.                                                            
                                                                               
  Number 517                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN believed there could be a difference even                     
  though one might be tracking value versus waste.  He asked                   
  what happened if the technology or the person that was                       
  capable of running a simulation study or whatever or                         
  overseeing another, whatever was done as a reservoir                         
  engineer, indicated that the tactic the industry might use                   
  was not as beneficial to the state as a different tactic.                    
                                                                               
  Tape 93-2, Side B                                                            
  Number 000                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON said potentially that would be sufficient to                    
  call a public hearing.  He noted the Commission had                          
  developed a very close relationship with industry over the                   
  years, and that industry had been very forthcoming with any                  
  requested information.  He believed industry welcomed                        
  another set of eyes to look at this sort of thing, and would                 
  come to the table and be generally concerned and probably                    
  alter their affairs accordingly.                                             
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON pointed out the Commission had tremendous                       
  statutory power to compel sworn testimony and records to be                  
  submitted, and to do those things that the state would have                  
  to do to ensure their interest was being protected.  He                      
  added the Commission would issue a conservation order that                   
  would be very clear as to the Commission's intent.                           
                                                                               
  Number 030                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN noted the Commission had access to                            
  information from every well that had been drilled and                        
  tested, as well as subsurface information.                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON disputed that statement, but acknowledged the                   
  Commission had a tremendous library with all the well log                    
  tapes and a lot of written records.  He advised the                          
  Commission was currently making a backup copy of every tape,                 
  and that currently there were over six gigabits of data that                 
  the Commission was trying to preserve for future                             
  generations.                                                                 
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if some of the Commission's information                 
  was confidential.                                                            
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON replied in the affirmative.  He said                            
  information on the Cook well was classified.                                 
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if it was a matter of increasing the                    
  Commission's staff to be able to stay abreast of how the                     
  data was manipulated.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 047                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON preferred to have additional capabilities for                   
  some of the issues that were constantly cropping up.  He                     
  hoped the Commission could have the capability on par with                   
  what the state was willing to put into its pre-sale analysis                 
  capabilities.                                                                
                                                                               
  SENATOR BERT SHARP inquired whether the Commission in the                    
  past had ever found significant errors of judgment as far as                 
  field production, and if the Commission had ever ordered or                  
  forced, through serious negotiation, an adjustment for a                     
  field development or production plan.                                        
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON talked about the development of Prudhoe Bay and                 
  the modeling effort that was done which showed Prudhoe Bay                   
  was rate sensitive.  Based on that, the Commission had                       
  established an offtake rate of 1.5 million barrels a day.                    
  Had that rate not been established there might have been                     
  production in excess of that which would have meant                          
  significant loss of revenues for that field, he stated.  The                 
  Commission in the early 1980s did something that had proven                  
  itself many times over in terms of recovery from Prudhoe                     
  Bay, he added.                                                               
                                                                               
  Number 094                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON was convinced industry was doing a very good                    
  job, but would much rather have a program where he could                     
  gather his own conclusions than be reliant totally on what                   
  industry was telling him.  He recognized budgets needed to                   
  be cut, and the need to keep operations efficient.  He                       
  stated the Commission was willing to step into that role and                 
  take on certain things for other agencies to rely on the                     
  Commission.                                                                  
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN appreciated the presentation and presumed if                  
  the Committee or the work group from the Senate had any                      
  questions they could submit them through him or directly to                  
  the Commission.                                                              
                                                                               
  MR. JOHNSTON said he would be honored if anyone contacted                    
  him directly to talk further.  He hoped to have a commission                 
  that the state could be proud of and to that end, requested                  
  the committee's support.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 110                                                                   
                                                                               
  JIM EASON, DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF OIL AND GAS (the Division),                 
  DNR, gave an overview of the Division.  In his estimation                    
  the Division was fairly small, but powerful.  He expounded                   
  on the types of leases owned by the state, with different                    
  royalty provisions, different lengths and effective dates,                   
  and different provisions with regard to deductibles from                     
  their royalty payment.  The Division kept track of whether                   
  leases were being honored and in proper form, and received                   
  bonuses as well as royalties and rental payments on the                      
  state leases.  Managing the units was another responsibility                 
  of the Division, he added.                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. EASON explained that unitization of interest meant that                  
  since fields were larger than a single lease, a number of                    
  people picked up leases next to each other then pooled their                 
  leases into one lease.  After a determination was made of                    
  how much each lessee owned, it could then be determined how                  
  much each lessee owed.  He referred committee members to the                 
  unit map in the packets he passed out and discussed some                     
  different areas on the map and different drilling points.                    
                                                                               
  Number 289                                                                   
                                                                               
  KEN BOYD, DEPUTY DIRECTOR, DIVISION OF OIL AND GAS, DNR,                     
  advised that the numbers on the maps had a series of tables                  
  that referred to each well.                                                  
  MR. EASON believed the oil and gas leasing program was a                     
  very important part of understanding the Division's work.                    
  He disclosed the state had offered leases on about 14                        
  million acres of state owned land.  He explained that a sale                 
  began by announcing the sale and calling for comments; then,                 
  over the five year scheduled period and the two years                        
  immediately preceding the sale a number of things happened,                  
  including a systematic call for specific information, an                     
  opportunity for public, state, and other agencies to make                    
  comments for consideration by the commissioner for terms of                  
  that sale.  There were a few exempt sales that did not have                  
  to go through this process, he added.                                        
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked how the Division went about determining                 
  which areas to lease.                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. EASON reiterated a call for comments on the sale was                     
  made, a call for recommendations from the public, industry                   
  or any interested party.                                                     
                                                                               
  Number 382                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE CYNTHIA TOOHEY inquired whether data from the                 
  original lease could be used to speed up the process.                        
                                                                               
  MR. EASON replied in the affirmative.                                        
                                                                               
  Number 429                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked whether the hearings created the                        
  differences among the lease requirements from one sale to                    
  another.                                                                     
                                                                               
  MR. EASON clarified they were not hearings, but confidential                 
  closed discussions.                                                          
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN was under the impression that the Division                    
  heard from environmentalists, agencies, and the public, and                  
  that some of those requirements in order to allow the lease                  
  sales to go forward might cause stipulations on one lease                    
  that would not necessarily be on another.                                    
                                                                               
  Number 493                                                                   
                                                                               
  MR. EASON concurred.  He added that over time the Division                   
  had developed minimal requirements that brought potential                    
  problems to the surface.  Those things were consistent with                  
  and a requirement of each lease.  The Division noted                         
  specific problems that people brought up, as well as                         
  suggestions for eliminating those problems, he said.                         
                                                                               
  MR. EASON talked about methane being a natural, dry gas.  He                 
  pointed out methane was trapped in coal beds.                                
                                                                               
  Number  521                                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD advised coal bed methane was a large project that                   
  the Division hoped would go on for several years.  He                        
  disclosed the Division was asking for $300,000 to compile                    
  data, do research, map and analyze areas with the potential                  
  for generating coal bed methane.  If successful, the                         
  Division would then request additional funds to begin a                      
  drilling program, he stated.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD added that cystic data was generated by putting                     
  sound waves into the ground.  He said, "You are basically                    
  looking at subsurface and it takes a specialist to take this                 
  data, combine it into a map and then analyze the results."                   
                                                                               
  Tape 93-3, Side A                                                            
  Number  000                                                                  
                                                                               
  MR. BOYD spoke about gravity and magnet data.  He advised                    
  the Division would compile this data to use as a marketing                   
  tool.                                                                        
                                                                               
  MR. EASON added gravity and magnetic data were first paths,                  
  and a companion piece to go with a piece of legislation that                 
  the administration intended to introduce.  "We have large                    
  block licensing bill, and this is a companion piece of                       
  leasing apparatus that does not replace or supercede our                     
  competitive leasing program," he said.                                       
                                                                               
  MR. EASON believed competitive leasing worked just fine in                   
  Cook Inlet and on the North Slope.  He noted there had been                  
  the opportunity to offer leases in many of the interior                      
  basins for years under the competitive leasing provisions,                   
  but there simply had been no interest.  Over the past two                    
  years the Division has looked at alternatives that would                     
  draw attention, but the strike against competitive leasing                   
  was the fact that the lease size itself was relatively                       
  small, which had the potential of forcing people to get a                    
  lot of competing interest that did not want to do things at                  
  the same time, he said.                                                      
                                                                               
  MR. EASON proposed to make available those areas with                        
  undefined oil and gas potential an option, which would allow                 
  a proposal to come in for certain areas to be offered and                    
  for a process that would involve iterations of picking                       
  competitive offers to perform work over a specified period                   
  of time in an area, the value of which would be the value of                 
  the offering.                                                                
                                                                               
  MR. EASON added there would be no competitive bonus                          
  associated with the offering, but people would have the                      
  opportunity to compete dollar to dollar on an exploration                    
  program.  The one that combined their interest, suggested                    
  the most efficient, cost effective, and yet the most                         
  thorough exploration of that area would have the right then                  
  to select certain areas, as well as certain conditions to                    
  convert portions or all of that area to a lease after                        
  exploration, he concluded.                                                   
                                                                               
  Number 055                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR LEMAN expressed interest in lease sales, but                        
  deferred questions since the committee would be dealing with                 
  that in the future.                                                          
                                                                               
  SENATOR SHARP asked about the API in the old Kuparuk field.                  
  He recalled it being very high.                                              
                                                                               
  MR. EASON concurred with Senator Sharp's recollection, but                   
  could not remember the exact number.  He added Point                         
  Thompson was very high, over 58 and higher.  Seal Island had                 
  a fairly high API gravity, and several discoveries from 1984                 
  on have had much higher gravity than that of Prudhoe Bay, he                 
  added.                                                                       
                                                                               
  SENATOR SHARP asked if the API at Prudhoe Bay and Kuparuk                    
  was 26, 27, or 28 average.                                                   
  MR. EASON alleged Prudhoe Bay was about 28 and dropping, and                 
  Kuparuk was in the lower 20s.  He added Miller Point was                     
  even lower.                                                                  
                                                                               
  Number 073                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN explained that the API gravity was a formula                  
  based on a specific gravity as well as the specific gravity                  
  of water and the specific gravity of the particular                          
  hydrocarbon.  Through this formula a number is developed:                    
  The higher the number the more water; the less viscous, the                  
  more vital the oil, he said.                                                 
                                                                               
  MR. EASON added that generally, the higher the level the                     
  better the oil was considered to be because it was easier to                 
  handle and generally had better refining characteristics.                    
  He explained that the owners of the pipeline had instituted                  
  among themselves a penalty called the pumpability factor,                    
  which said if your oil did not pump as fast and a more drag-                 
  reducing agent had to be put in, an additional penalty would                 
  be incurred.  He believed this was a very legitimate thing                   
  to do while there was a constraint on the volume that could                  
  be put through there.                                                        
                                                                               
  Number 140                                                                   
                                                                               
  CO-CHAIR GREEN asked if consideration had ever been given to                 
  utilizing the same technically trained people used by the                    
  Commission and if that would raise the problem of                            
  confidentiality.                                                             
                                                                               
  MR. EASON replied in the affirmative.  However, in the past                  
  he had recommended a better cross of technical staff on both                 
  sides.  He added there was no problem with confidentiality                   
  as long as data from private lands was being reviewed.  As a                 
  matter of convenience and cost savings the Division and the                  
  Commission had the authority to take copies of all surveys                   
  done as well as other information from each well as drilled,                 
  he added.                                                                    
                                                                               
  Number 170                                                                   
                                                                               
  REPRESENTATIVE SANDERS asked if Mr. Eason was personally                     
  concerned or confident about Alaska's future.                                
                                                                               
  MR. EASON stated that he had recently sold his house, and                    
  personally was very concerned about Alaska's future.  He                     
  believed there was still a lot of oil in Alaska that would                   
  be spread out over a large area and small accumulations that                 
  would require more and more to invest.  He concluded that                    
  the North Slope oil was going to really decline and the kind                 
  of money that we have been used to having just was not going                 
  to be there anymore.                                                         
                                                                               
  Number 222                                                                   
                                                                               
  ADJOURNMENT                                                                  
                                                                               
  There being no further testimony, CO-CHAIR GREEN adjourned                   
  the meeting.                                                                 

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